Commentary on the economic , geopolitical and simply fascinating things going on. Served occasionally with a side of snark.
Thursday, October 11, 2012
Debate post - mortem - apart from breaking down the debate , what about Hillary being tossed to the wolves Biden and by etension the White house - has Hil and Bill already started dishing payback ?
[ I love this image that's going around email today...I just wish whoever put it together would have stamped it because I'd like to give them credit. It's a perfect depiction of how Biden and Ryan behaved at the debate last night ]
Last night’s VP debate was the most bizarre 90 minutes of television I have seen in a while. I did a livestream transcript of it as the debate unfolded and Megan Fox and I talked about it in a recap on our radio show. This morning I’m still aghast at how horribly Joe Biden behaved himself and am marveling at the restraint shown by Paul Ryan. I’m not someone who is quick to anger but I have my limits. If Biden had done to me what he’d done to Ryan — constantly interrupting him, being incredibly rude, laughing inappropriately, smirking, making weird faces — I’d have asked him at one point if he was on drugs or needed medical attention. I just would not have been able to control myself. But Paul Ryan did, and never took any of the bait that Biden was dangling. I’m convinced that Biden’s goal last night was to provoke anger from Ryan, but Ryan smartly never gave in to whatever temptation he may have had to just punch Biden in the face after the disrespectful way he behaved himself.
For those who missed the debate and don’t have time to watch the whole thing or read the whole transcript, here are the Top Then Things You Need to Know About Last Night’s VP Debate.
10. Moderator Martha Raddatz behaved like the character Joan Callamezzo from the show “Parks & Recreation” and served as a third debater on the stage, often ganging up on Paul Ryan with Joe Biden.
For those who don’t watch Amy Poehler’s sitcom on NBC, this is Joan Callamezzo:
She’s a cheesy local TV show host in Pawnee, Indiana who has a set of “Gotcha! Dancers” who come onto the stage and shake their sequined fannies whenever Joan scores an interview where she can shout “Gotcha!” at someone. Joan is vapid, mean-spirited, and thinks she’s the center of the world’s attention despite being someone that people outside of Pawnee have never heard of. Kind of sounds like how Martha Raddatz conducts herself as well.
Raddatz was absolutely shameless last night. She never reined Joe Biden in and allowed him to interrupt Paul Ryan every time he spoke. At times, both Raddatz and Biden came at Ryan simultaneously…so he had to debate BOTH of them at once. Raddatz repeatedly asked Ryan strings of follow-up questions to his answers in a rat-a-tat-tat style clearly meant to rattle him while she never did anything similar to Biden, whom she treated with kid-gloves. I don’t know if that was because she knew Ryan could take it while Biden was clearly unhinged enough and she didn’t want to upset him further…but there was definitely one sort of treatment for Ryan and another for Biden.
Why on Earth do Republicans continue to allow people like this to moderate the debates?
9. Joe Biden acted like a complete jackass last night until there were just 15 minutes or so left in the debate…at which point his batteries wore out.
The debate was last night and this morning I still can’t decide what was stranger: the fact that Biden ranted and raved like a lunatic for the first 75 minutes of the debate or that suddenly, with about 15 minutes left, he decided change into another person and whisper for the rest of the evening. It was as if he, too, like Obama during his debate in Denver, was shot up with amphetamines before he took the stage and they suddenly wore off with 15 minutes left on the clock. That, or after screaming and yelling for so long he felt like he was losing his voice so then he needed to whisper for the rest of the time he was up there. I’ve never seen anything like this. It was very Hyde/Jekyl, with the raging lunatic personality coming out first and then calming down into an almost-meek, deflated soul at the end. In a word, it was bizarre.
8. When Paul Ryan spoke, Joe Biden made strange faces, smirked, laughed inappropriately, and tried to be as distracting and strange as possible so no one would listen to Ryan.
I have now seen something like this happen TWICE in my lifetime. Besides Joe Biden’s behavior last night, many years ago I went to a grade school level science fair to support my friend Abbey’s son Remy, who had worked on a project involving photosynthesis. When Remy and other kids gave their little presentations, this clique of obnoxious bullies stood in the corner heckling the youngsters. I think these were loser high school kids who came back to their old grade school to pick on students many years their junior. For whatever reason, the teachers in the room didn’t do anything to stop them. It was beyond strange.
That’s how the current vice president of the United States behaved himself on television last night. It was disrespectful and obnoxious. The current count is that Biden interrupted Ryan 87 times and Biden ended up speaking four minutes more than Ryan in the debate. Focus groups of undecided and independent voters noticed this and believe the big takeaway from the night is that “Joe Biden is a jackass who interrupts people”. Ryan came off as polite, polished, and professional. Biden made himself look like a bully. Since Biden’s not really like this in person, he had to have pulled this for a reason…
7. The Obama campaign has given up on reaching independents and undecideds and is just trying to keep their base turned out at this point.
I’ve met Joe Biden. He’s not a jackass in person. Though he says stupid things sometimes on TV, he’s not a nasty or caustic person. The persona he brought to the debate last night was deliberate…a direct response to those on the Left who were upset that Barack Obama slept through his own debate in Denver. For a week, lefties have been upset that Obama just stood there and allowed Mitt Romney to dominate him…so Biden had to come to this debate tonight to verbally punch Paul Ryan in the face to give the lefties some aggressive combat like they have repeatedly demanded since last Wednesday. Biden’s performance was for the Democrat base that enjoys antics like this. The more obnoxious and in-your-face someone is, the more the Left likes that person because the Alinsky Rules dictate this behavior and encourage people to be constantly aggressive, bullying, and unrelenting. Biden did that in spades.
The Left is probably happen tonight because people will stop talking about Obama’s submissive and somnambulant performance in Denver and will instead be saying “Did you see Joe Biden at his debate? He really went after that Ryan kid”. I believe Democrats are trying to keep Obama’s loss in November from being a total, blowout, humiliation at this point. They need the base to be fired up to turnout, but I think they realize it’s too late to win the independents and undecideds…who are people turned off by what Biden did up on that stage. If they’re not going to win those people anyway, then I guess Obama/Biden decided they could afford to alienate them completely with Biden’s antics so long as the Democrat base on the far Left enjoyed all this.
6. Paul Ryan had all the facts to refute all of the Democrats’ lies and Joe Biden’s strategy was to interrupt and make a scene so Ryan couldn’t get all the facts onto the table.
I’m 100% convinced that Biden was told to interrupt Ryan every time he spoke so that Ryan’s advantage in talking about Medicare or the economy could be blunted. Biden knew he could not win if he let Ryan talk and present the case for Romney/Ryan and the economic recovery they will bring…so Biden went out there and made a scene every time Ryan started to make his salient points. Sometimes Biden would bang on the table. Other times, he’d just make noises, laugh, huff, harrumph, or even waive his hands in the air to distract Ryan. Martha Raddatz, the moderator, would allow this and sometimes would join in herself. Once again, it reminded me of a bully in a classroom trying to make another student “mess up” by creating a disturbance when the other kid was giving his presentation for his final grade. Folks, this pretty much sums up while I will never vote for any Democrat ever again…because behavior like this from someone like Biden is celebrated in the Democrat Party and I can’t ever imagine my conducting myself like that, certainly not in public. I never want to be affiliated again with a party whose leaders behave this way. It was deplorable.
5. It seemed like one of Joe Biden’s goals was to make Paul Ryan angry so there would be footage of that from the debate, of Ryan losing his cool…but they didn’t get that since Ryan was cool and awesome the whole time.
I’ve never been a big chess player, but I know a little about the game. The gambit Biden set out to play last night was to provoke Paul Ryan into becoming angry and raising his voice or seeming scary. Democrats needed that footage to run their MediScare attack ads against Ryan. I believe a lot of the bizarre ranting, raving, and interrupting that Biden engaged in was to provoke Ryan to anger…but it didn’t work and Ryan remained calm and collected the entire debate. Sure, he was frustrated and even at one point had to ask Raddatz if she was going to allow him to finish what he was saying before Biden could speak again. Raddatz sat there clueless, looking for her “Gotcha! Dancers” to shimmy in from off stage. Biden was a piece on the board that Democrats were willing to sacrifice last night if it meant being able to score footage of Paul Ryan getting angry. Democrats know that Biden is an established figure and people already have a firm awareness that he’s generally an affable person…so him acting like a lunatic in one debate would not change their perception much. Ryan, however, was an unknown quantity to most people watching last night…and if he had gotten angry at Biden then the takeaway would have been that “the young guy sure is mad and scary”. I’m proud to say that Ryan saw the trap coming and didn’t fall into it. I also think the guy is just not a hothead who gets mad…I really think he is calm and cool like that all the time. It was an epic fail on the part of Democrats who did not get the checkmate they wanted by sacrificing Biden the pawn in this gambit.
4. Biden lied about Ambassador Chris Stevens asking for more security in Libya…he said “we weren’t
told they wanted more security again”.
Watch for this to be — in Biden’s unique style of speaking — “a big f***ing deal” in the days ahead because last night Joe Biden directly contradicted the testimony that’s coming out in the Benghazi investigation from intelligence and State Department officials who insist that, yes, Ambassador Stevens had been asking for more security in Libya FOR MONTHS and he was repeatedly ignored. Paul Ryan noted that the Ambassador to Paris has an elite marine guard for protection…but that was not given to Ambassador Stevens (who was an openly gay man serving as ambassador to a Muslim country…and yet he was not allowed to have Marines guarding him!). I know it’s just the first morning after this debate, and it’s very hard to predict what’s going to be a big story in the future, but I think even the Ministry of Truth that is our national media will have a hard time ignoring the fact that Joe Biden directly lied about the repeated requests for more security at the Benghazi consulate. This is a big f***ing deal indeed. Biden did a lot of damage to the Obama campaign by lying last night because even the incurious and dimwitted “undecided” voters out there are able to glance at a newspaper or website once in a while or hear “something about them asking for security and the government saying no” and they will remember that “the angry old man in that debate said no one ever asked for security” and they will conclude the angry old man lied in the debate. Then they will wonder what else Obama/Biden lies about.
3. The security at Benghazi was not the only thing Biden lied about. He lied repeatedly and
energetically all night.
Joel Pollack over at Breitbart did a good breakdown of Biden’s ten biggest lies last night. Paul Ryan called him on the carpet for lying so much, and reminded viewers that this administration has no record it can run on so all it will do is attack, lie, and try to create distractions from the truth. Biden was like a clown sent into the middle of a traffic accident to keep people from looking at the devastation. The more they wanted to see how bad things were and get a handle on the facts, the more antics Biden would engage in to distract them. At times, Joe Biden reminded me a lot of Jack Nicholson as the Joker in the first Batman movie back in 1989. Always grinning, attacking, snarling, and sneering. And not a word out of his mouth could be trusted. But it was all part of a bigger plan to make sure Paul Ryan talked as little as possible and that Ryan could not bring to light all the failings of this administration.
2. At times, Biden talked directly into the camera like he was making an informercial.
Did you think this was as creepy as I did? They do this in bad sitcoms, too, where a character breaks “the fourth wall” and talks directly to the audience from time to time. Malcolm & the Middle did this. It was a staple on Saved By the Bell, too. They sort of do this on Modern Family today. At various points through the debate, Biden would look directly into the camera and say, “Hey seniors, listen up…” and would then talk to them as if it was a secret conversation they were having…a if he magically broke away from regular programming and was able to speak directly to certain seniors in their home through the tee-vee. Creepy. Biden would tell them not to trust Ryan and would engage in the MediScare tactics that Democrats love. Scaring old people and hoping they were too addled to sort out the facts themselves is a classic Democrat political tactic. But I have never seen it so aggressively played before. Biden took the Mediscare stuff to a whole new level by reaching out directly through the tee-vee in the debate to scare seniors on a personal level. It was even more shocking that the cameramen allowed this to happen and facilitated it, too. Almost like it was planned from the beginning to happen. Hmmmmm.
1. The lasting impression of this debate is that Joe Biden is a crass and rude interrupter while Paul Ryan is a nice, polite, young man who seemed serious and well-prepared.
Let’s be real here, since few people remember the things said at these debates. I not only watched the Romney vs. Obama matchup three times but I did a livestream transcript of it here on this site. I still can’t, however, give you any exact quotes from the exchange despite knowing the gist of what they both said. I do, however, remember that Romney was assertive, confident, and impressive while Obama was listless, bewildered, and befuddled throughout the debate. It also looked clearly like Obama was either on drugs or in withdrawal from something in Denver. Romney looked like a President and Obama looked like a junkie. That was my big takeaway and what I remember now.
In a week, few will remember what Biden and Ryan said last night but they will remember that Biden was bizarre, yelled, and interrupted Ryan very rudely. Meanwhile, Ryan was a handsome, polite, and measured man who never reacted in anger to any of Biden’s craziness. People will remember this.
Biden will be seen as unbalanced and rude….while Ryan will be seen as well-prepared and polite.
Biden was Goofus. Ryan was Gallant. Just like in an old Highlights for Children magazine…which many people will presume Joe Biden still struggles to read on a regular basis.
The biggest deception of the debate clearly belonged to Paul Ryan when he talked about unemployment: "You know what the unemployment rate in Scranton is today?" he asked. "It’s 10 percent. You know what it was the day you guys came in—8.5 percent. That’s how it's going all around America." That's so flatly wrong I'm honestly surprised Ryan was willing to go there. The unemployment rate peaked at 10 percent in October 2009. Last month it was down to 7.8 percent. That's how it's going all around, and Ryan knows it.
A CBS flash poll of independents calls the debate 50%-31% for Biden. A CNN poll of all voters calls it 48-44 for Ryan.
MARTHA RADDATZ: I recently spoke to a highly decorated soldier who said that this presidential campaign has left him dismayed. He told me, quote, "The ads are so negative and they are all tearing down each other rather than building up the country." What would you say to that American hero about this campaign?
RYAN: First of all, I'd thank him to his service to our country…And then I would say, you have a president who ran for president four years ago promising hope and change, who has now turned his campaign into attack, blame and defame. You see, if you don't have a good record to run on, then you paint your opponent as someone to run from. That was what President Obama said in 2008. It's what he’s doing right now. Look at all the string of broken promises…
The question was about negativity, and Ryan, without blinking, immediately launched into a bitter negative attack. I don't know how many people noticed this, but it sure struck me as badly off in tone.
Joe Biden very forcefully—and repeatedly—insisted tonight that Iran was nowhere near getting a bomb and it wasn't really something to worry about right now. Was this a good line to take? Substantively, he has a good argument: Iran isn't close to getting a bomb, and Irandoesn't have a delivery vehicle in any case. But 10 years of warmongering has made me skeptical that this is a good tack to take. It sounds weak and naive. I sure hope I'm wrong about that.
Andrew Sullivan, who had by far the biggest freakout over Obama's performance last week,is apparently happier tonight: "I have to say that Biden did to Ryan what Cheney did to Edwards [in 2004] in style and demeanor and authoritah. Ryan was hampered by an insurmountable problem on the impossible mathematics of the Romney budget. I think his inability to answer that question—how do you pay for it?—has to be the driving question now."
David Roberts: "The GOP complaint, if I'm hearing them correctly, is that Joe Biden smiled & laughed too much while kicking their candidate's ass." Yeah, pretty much. The Fox News crowd is going absolutely nuts over Biden's smiling and laughing. I guess I don't blame them, really. I probably would too if I were them. Partly this is because I think Biden overdid things on this score, but mostly because it's a lot easier than trying to take on the substance of the debate, where Biden pretty clearly got the better of Ryan. However, this will be a good test of the right's ability to drive the media conversation. Conservatives are going all in about how condescending and inappropriate and just plain insulting Biden's laughing was, and how it's really the big takeaway from the debate. (Karl Rove: "It's what people will remember 20 years from now." Greta Van Susteren is just flatly insisting that this ought to be the main media narrative in the morning.) But they're obviously protesting too much. I don't think it will fly this time.
Martha Raddatz is getting good reviews from everyone except Sarah Palin, who says "Paul Ryan was underfoot" the entire debate because Raddatz let him run roughshod. Sean Hannity then made a remark about Obama attending Raddatz's wedding 20 years ago. Good grief.
I thought Paul Ryan was unusually brazen in his defense of the Republican insistence on extending the Bush tax cuts for the rich. Biden made the reasonable point that you could easily vote separately on extending the cuts for the middle class and extending the cuts for the rich, but Republicans refuse to do that: "They’re holding hostage the middle class tax cut to the super wealthy." This was Ryan's response:
Look, if you taxed every person and successful business making over $250,000 at 100 percent, it would only run the government for 98 days. If everybody who paid income taxes last year, including successful small businesses, doubled their income taxes this year, we'd still have a $300 billion deficit. You see? There aren't enough rich people and small businesses to tax to pay for all their spending.
And so the next time you hear them say, "Don't worry about it, we'll get a few wealthy people to pay their fair share," watch out, middle class, the tax bill's coming to you.
That's kind of breathtaking, no? First, he says that ending tax cuts for the rich wouldn't solve the entire deficit problem all by itself, so therefore we shouldn't do it. Huh? Then he attempts some jiu jitsu by suggesting that if you're in favor of partly solving the deficit problem with tax hikes on the rich, then "watch out, middle class, the tax bill's coming to you." Double huh? I wonder if anyone fell for that?
Ezra Klein tweets: "Ryan is better at talking entitlements than Romney. He sounds excited about the changes for his generation. Romney makes them sound terrible." There's some truth to this. Ryan has a remarkable ability to make his cuts sound really appealing. I attribute this partly to the fact that he really believes what he says, and partly to the fact that so many young people are convinced that Medicare and Social Security won't be there for them unless they're cut. They believe this, of course, mainly because people like Paul Ryan have been telling them this for so long.
Chuck Todd: "The Twitter liberals I follow seem incredibly fired up about Biden; the Twitter conservatives I follow, seem incredibly fired up about Biden." It's true on Fox too. They're mostly obsessing over Biden's demeanor, not Ryan's performance.
By the way, Biden didn't use the word "literally" a single time tonight.
And hey—how did the hack gap make out tonight? Matthew Cain: "Starting to believe @kdrum." Michael Linden: "@kdrum's hack gap is on full display tonight. If the performances were reversed, liberal pundits would be in full retreat." Ryan Cooper: "The hack gap is on prominent display after this debate. Right rallies around Ryan." Yep.
Finally, what did my own personal focus group have to say about the debate? According to Marian, Ryan looked like an "entry level" vice president. Very perceptive, I'd say.
and how does Hil respond to being given the you're expendable treatment.....
Is the White House throwing Hillary under the bus on the Benghazi attack?
POSTED AT 4:44 PM ON OCTOBER 12, 2012 BY ALLAHPUNDIT
My guess is no, they wouldn’t dare, but the Daily Caller and Tom Maguire make a fair point. In the span of about 18 hours, we’ve had Biden and Carney each insist that blame for Benghazi’s security failures lies outside the White House. It’s State that’s responsible for protecting U.S. diplomats in the field, which means if the buck doesn’t stop with Obama here, then it must stop with you-know-who. Normally that wouldn’t be a problem, as cabinet members are expected to take the heat for the president when something goes badly wrong. But in this case you-know-who has her eye on running in 2016 — possibly against (heh) Biden himself — and surely doesn’t want Benghazi staining the foreign policy credentials she’s worked hard to build.
Throw Bill Clinton, official Obama campaign surrogate, into the mix and we’ve got the makings of a nuclear clusterfark of ego, ass-covering, presidential ambition, and Clintonian drama. Edward Klein says the chain reaction is already in motion:
In fact, since the convention, Clinton and Obama have had a serious falling-out over two issues: the president’s preparation and lamentable performance in his debate with Mitt Romney, and the question of who should be assigned blame — Obama or Secretary of State Hillary Clinton — for the intelligence and security screw-up in Benghazi, Libya…
My sources tell me that Clinton is working on a strategy that will allow Hillary to avoid having Benghazi become a stain on her political fortunes should she decide to run for president in 2016.
Bill Clinton has even gone so far as to seek legal advice about Hillary’s liability in terms of cables and memos that might be subpoenaed by the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, which this week launched an investigation into the deaths of Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans. The committee will also examine the apparent Obama administration cover-up that followed the Benghazi attack.
Finally, I’m told that Bill is playing with various doomsday scenarios, up to and including the idea that Hillary should consider resigning over the issue if the Obama team tries to use her as a scapegoat.
Will Hillary now shiv Obama back + leak that WH knew? Getting interesting! HRC v BHO/HRC v Joe. Will WJC keep stumping?dailycaller.com/2012/10/12/whi…
I’m skeptical that O would hang Hillary out to dry, for four reasons. One: She’s the most popular member of the administration, far more popular than even The One himself. Her husband, who’s out on the trail for Obama as I write this, may be even more popular than she is. Why would O want to alienate the Clintons at a moment when he’s desperate to maximize turnout among Democrats? Doing that would damage his re-election chances more than a perfunctory “the buck stops with me” statement on Benghazi.
Two: She’s leaving soon anyway. She said earlier this year that she’ll serve four years at State and no more. Why pick a fight when they’ll benefit from the perception of new leadership at State in three months anyway? Just play out the string, be nice to her, blame “miscommunications” at the Department for the breakdown in consulate security, and let her ride off into the sunset.
Three: How are Obama and Biden going to scapegoat the most famous woman politician in America for a security breakdown at a moment when they’re counting on a decisive gender gap to deliver them a second term? After nine months of the “war on women” and Sandra Fluke and the three-day salute to abortion that you and I know as the Democratic convention, they’re going to freeze out … Hillary Clinton? C’mon.
Four: Even if O thought he could get away with scapegoating Hillary without fear of reprisal from women voters and the Clinton machine, it’d make him look pathetically weak. He likes to talk about how, as president, he bears responsibility for everything, but when you try to pin him down on specifics, he thinks he bears responsibility for almost nothing — be it the economy (Bush’s fault), Fast & Furious (DOJ underlings’ fault), the Benghazi horror (the Mohammed movie’s fault, now State Department underlings’ fault), etc. In fact, my hunch is that Hillary might secretly relish the chance to take a “buck stops here” line herself on Benghazi notwithstanding the danger it poses to her foreign-policy cred, since the public would respect that someone in the administration was willing to stand up. That’s a dangerous contrast for O: If you thought he looked weak before, imagine how he’d look if he tried to push this off on his Secretary of State — and former rival — and she turned it somehow into a demonstration of political courage and accountability. There are already plenty of people who think they nominated the wrong Democrat in 2008. He doesn’t need any more.
Exit quotation from Maguire: “Will this Obama/Biden message of ‘We killed Osama butthey forgot to remind us about the blowback’ really carry them past the election?”
The decision to raid Osama bin Laden’s compound in Pakistan and kill him was made without President Obama – and actually was kept from him until after the helicopters already were in Pakistani airspace – according to a new report from a retired major general who cites a senior intelligence source.
The raid was handled by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Director of Central Intelligence Leon Panetta and others in this way because Obama had vetoed multiple earlier opportunities to attack the man behind the 9/11 terror attacks, the report said.
The report comes from U.S. Army Maj. Gen. Paul E. Vallely, who retired in 1993 as deputy commanding general, Pacific Command, and has served as a senior military analyst for Fox News. He is now chairman of Stand Up America, which calls itself the standard bearer for the conservancy of the U.S. Constitution.
The group has briefed the FBI, Congress, law enforcement and other agencies on terrorism and “anything that affects the life, liberty and pursuit of happiness of our citizenry and way of life.”
In a column published today by WND, Vallely said a “senior and sensitive intelligence community source” affirmed to a Stand Up America research team that Obama “did not know of the raid in Abbottabad to kill Osama bin Laden on May 1, 2011, until after the helicopters with SEAL Team 6 had crossed into Pakistani airspace.”
The source said Obama was notified “at the golf course … which is why he was sitting in the strange sitting position in the picture that documented the White House operations room event.”
The source told Stand Up America that Panetta “was the key player who organized and supported this daring raid.”
“He signed the ‘execute orders’ with only a few people aware: Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, Adm. Bill Mullen and Gen. David Petraeus.”
The source explained the White House “was closed out of the decision because the president, through Valerie Jarrett, had turned down two or three other earlier proposals.”
Panetta, Vallely’s source reported, “and his covert planning team were extremely frustrated at all the denials, so saw the opportunity slipping away, as implausible as it seems.”
The report said Panetta convinced his other principals to make the decision and received their full-fledged support but the president, according to the official, “remained clueless on the mission.”
“This tremendously serious and sensitive information was relayed by a source who has been very frustrated with the continued dishonesty within the White House,” Vallely reported.
Vallely, who served in Vietnam and retired in 1991 from the U.S. Army as deputy commanding general for the Pacific, previously has called for “We the People” to stop the nation’s “progressive socialist, treasonous death march.”
He graduated from West Point and was commissioned in the Army in 1961. He served in theaters in Europe and the Pacific Rim and saw two tours of combat duty in Vietnam.
CBS has reported that “Obama’s decision to send operatives after Osama bin Laden” was described by White House counter-terrorism adviser John Brennan as “one of the most gutsiest calls of any president.”
However, the Mail Online in London reported a book by Richared Miniter documented that three “kill” missions were canceled by Obama in January, February and March of 2011.
The SEAL mission was in May 2011.
Miniter reported it was Jarrett who kept urging Obama to cancel plans to get bin Laden.
And so another disingenuous display of avoiding saying anything definitive about anything specific is complete. Without doubt thewinner of this evening's 'round-table' is Martha Raddatz. Despite the incessant interruption and grinning/laughing/anger/frustration of Biden (and Ryan bringing up a 'car-crash' - awkward), the two candidates had relatively equal talking time (via CNN Biden Won 41:32 vs Ryan 40:12) but Ryan pipped Biden by 7,434 words to 7,425! Picking a winner is tough - so we won't - but Obama's odds rose from a pre-debate dump to 61% to over 64% (this morning's levels) - but stopped rising once the candidates began to discuss Afghanistan and Syria and when Ryan 'summed-up', Obama's odds crashed back to unchanged at 61.2%. Ryan won the drinking game 32 to 26.
Biden - 3x Malarkey
Ryan - 1x Car-Crash
The Obama Odds Rollercoaster:
The Final Score in The Drinking Debate (via @DebateDrinking):
*JOE BIDEN SAYS LIBYA ATTACK WAS 'TRAGEDY'
*JOE BIDEN SAYS ANY MISTAKES IN LIBYA WILL NOT HAPPEN AGAIN
*BIDEN SAYS OBAMA 'HAS LED WITH A STEADY HAND AND CLEAR VISION'
*BIDEN SAYS 'WE WEREN'T TOLD' LIBYA EMBASSY NEEDED MORE SECURITY
*BIDEN: 'WE FEEL QUITE CONFIDENT' IN ABILITY TO STRIKE IRAN
*BIDEN: 'WE WILL NOT LET THEM ACQUIRE A NUCLEAR WEAPON'
*BIDEN: 'THEY DON'T HAVE A WEAPON' IN IRAN
*BIDEN: WAR MUST ALWAYS BE 'LAST RESORT'
*BIDEN SAYS 'THIS PRESIDENT DOESN'T BLUFF'
*BIDEN: 'WE CAN AND WE WILL' GET UNEMPLOYMENT UNDER 6%
*BIDEN SAYS TIMELINE FOR DROP IN UNEMPLOYMENT UNCERTAIN*BIDEN SAYS ROMNEY, RYAN SHOULD SIGN PLEDGE TO MIDDLE CLASS
*BIDEN SAYS GOP NEEDS TO 'GET OUT OF THE WAY' *BIDEN SAYS GOP HOLDING UP GOOD POLICIES TO HELP MIDDLE CLASS *BIDEN: 'FOLLOW YOUR INSTINCTS' ON ROMNEY, RYAN MEDICARE PLAN *BIDEN: 'WE WILL BE NO PART OF A VOUCHER PROGRAM' ON MEDICARE *BIDEN: 'NO JUSTIFICATION' NOW FOR TAX CUTS FOR WEALTHY *BIDEN: ROMNEY WILL CUT MIDDLE CLASS TAX BREAKS *BIDEN: AFGHANS RESPONSIBLE FOR OWN SECURITY *BIDEN: 'WE ARE LEAVING IN 2014, PERIOD' *BIDEN: ALLIES AGREE W/ U.S. TIMELINE IN AFGHANISTAN *BIDEN: TIMELINE IS NECESSARY TO MAKE AFGHANISTAN 'STEP UP' *BIDEN: OBAMA ENSURING ASSAD REGIME FOLLOWED BY LEGITIMATE GOVT *BIDEN: OBAMA DOING EXACTLY WHAT'S NEEDED IN SYRIA *BIDEN: CATHOLICISM 'PARTICULARLY' INFORMS SOCIAL DOCTRINE *BIDEN SAYS ACCEPTS, WON'T IMPOSE CATHOLIC CHURCH ABORTION VIEW
*BIDEN: 'WE INHERITED A GOD AWFUL CIRCUMSTANCE'
*BIDEN: PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR 'EVEN SHOT,' PEACE OF MIND
RYAN
*RYAN SAYS OBAMA WAITED TO CALL LIBYA ATTACK TERRORISM *RYAN SAYS OBAMA IS 'PROJECTING WEAKNESS ABROAD' *RYAN SAYS DEFENSE CUTS PROJECT WEAKNESS *RYAN SAYS 'WE SHOULD ALWAYS STAND UP FOR PEACE' AND DEMOCRACY *RYAN SAYS IRAN 'RACING TOWARD' NUCLEAR WEAPON *RYAN SAYS ADMINISTRATION WAS AGAINST TOUGH IRAN SANCTIONS *RYAN: ADMINISTRATION OPPOSED IRAN SANCTIONS, ISSUED WAIVERS *RYAN SAYS ADMINISTRATION'S ACTIVITY ABROAD ENCOURAGES IRAN *RYAN SAYS ADMINISTRATION INHERITED 'TOUGH SITUATION' *RYAN SAYS ECONOMY 'HEADED IN THE WRONG DIRECTION' *RYAN SAYS 'MITT ROMNEY IS A GOOD MAN,' CARES ABOUT 100% OF U.S. *RYAN SAYS DEMOCRATS HAD MAJORITY, FAILED TO HELP ECONOMY *RYAN SAYS OBAMA SEND TAX DOLLARS TO 'WINDMILLS IN CHINA' *RYAN: ENTITLEMENTS HEADING TOWARD BANKRUPTCY 'INDISPUTABLE' *RYAN: OBAMA GOT CAUGHT W/ HAND IN 'PIGGY BANK' ON MEDICARE*RYAN: 'IF WE DON'T FIX THIS PROBLEM,' SENIORS WILL GET CUT
*RYAN: 'WE ARE NOT GOING TO JEOPARDIZE' MEDICARE *RYAN: ROMNEY'S 'ENTIRE PLAN' ON TAXES BASED ON HELPING ECONOMY *RYAN: 'WATCH OUT MIDDLE CLASS' OBAMA WILL TAX YOU *RYAN: UNLIKE OBAMA, WE 'WANT TO HAVE BIG BIPARTISAN AGREEMENTS' *RYAN: ROMNEY HAS RECORD OF WORKING ACROSS THE AISLE *RYAN: GAINS IN AFGHANISTAN SHOULDN'T BE LOST *RYAN: U.S. SHOULDN'T BROADCAST AFGHANISTAN TIMELINE *RYAN: TIMELINE GIVES ALLIES REASON TO TRUST US LESS *RYAN: 'RUSSIA RESET'S NOT WORKING,' PROVEN BY SYRIA DISPUTES *RYAN SAYS NO ONE PROPOSING U.S TROOPS IN SYRIA *RYAN: U.S. SHOULDN'T BE 'OUTSOURCING' FOREIGN POLICY TO RUSSIA *RYAN: FAITH, REASON AND SCIENCE BEHIND PRO-LIFE BELIEFS
*RYAN: OBAMA 'HAD HIS CHANCE' AND 'IT'S NOT WORKING'
*RYAN: HE, ROMNEY OFFERING REAL REFORMS, WANT TO EARN SUPPORT
By ALEXANDER BURNS | 10/11/12 6:11 PM EDT Updated: 10/11/12 10:25 PM EDT
DANVILLE, Ky. – Vice President Joe Biden delivered an extraordinarily aggressive, top-to-bottom attack on the Romney-Ryan ticket Thursday, repeatedly interrupting and even laughing at Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan during the lone vice presidential debate of the 2012 campaign.
The debate was a head-snapping role reversal from last week’s first presidential debate in Denver, which featured a subdued Barack Obama and a combative, insistent Mitt Romney.
Here on the campus of Centre College, it was Biden who seized control of the event early and assailed Ryan with a stream of caustic one-liners and emotionally charged accusations against both members of the 2012 GOP ticket.
He set the tone for the evening early, when Ryan rebuked the White House for not securing a U.S. diplomatic outpost in Libya.
“With all due respect, that’s a bunch of malarkey. Not a single thing he said is accurate,” Biden said, proceeding to blast Ryan for having “cut embassy security in his budget.”
When Ryan criticized the administration’s approach to Iran, warning of a “nuclear arms race in the Middle East,” the vice president could barely keep his response safe for broadcast television.
“This is a bunch of stuff,” he said. Later, when Ryan cited John F. Kennedy’s tax policies, Biden slashed: “Oh, now you’re Jack Kennedy?”
Ryan, seated across a table from Biden and frequently smiling calmly amid Biden’s bombast, was comparatively restrained. He focused on a narrower set of message points that have defined the Romney-Ryan message: accusing the White House of pursuing a foreign policy of weakness and a domestic policy based on mathematically questionable tax policies anchored in class warfare.
“What we are watching on our TV screens is the unraveling of the Obama foreign policy,” Ryan said, referring to violence in Libya and across the Middle East.
Faced with a heated attack from Biden on Romney’s infamous “47 percent” comments, Ryan anchored his answer in a big-picture economic argument: “Look, did [Obama and Biden] come in and inherit a tough situation? Absolutely. But we’re going in the wrong direction. Look at where we are. The economy is barely limping along.”
The stakes for the debate were high on both sides: Biden has been under pressure to deliver a powerful general-election message after Obama’s limp performance against Romney. The 69-year-old former Delaware senator is viewed as a forceful communicator and authoritative on policy, especially on foreign affairs — but also as undisciplined and prone to veering off message or expressing himself imprecisely.
Ryan, meanwhile, has never performed under a spotlight as bright as this one, or faced off against a rival as potentially aggressive as Biden. The 42-year-old House Budget Committee chairman is known in Washington as an articulate defender of conservative fiscal policy, but is still in the process of introducing himself to a national audience.
Biden and Ryan met on a stage at Centre College here in Danville, in a forum moderated by Martha Raddatz, ABC’s chief international correspondent. Unlike the presidential debates — which have been designed to focus on different policy areas at each one — the face-off between the two running-mates covered both foreign and domestic policy, and anything else Raddatz chooses to bring up.
A survey released Wednesday by the Pew Research Center found that Biden is viewed less favorably than Ryan by voters. Only 39 percent of registered voters said they had a favorable view of the vice president, while 51 percent had an unfavorable view.
For Ryan, those numbers were more evenly split at 44 percent favorable and 40 percent unfavorable.
The acid, confrontational tone of the evening was no surprise on either side. In an interview last week with the conservative Weekly Standard magazine, Ryan indicated that he expected some rough treatment from his opponent.
“I expect the vice president to come at me like a cannonball. He’ll be in full attack mode,” Ryan said.
Public polls taken since last week’s presidential debate have shown a competitive general-election race, with Romney ticking up a few points nationally and in several key swing states in the aftermath of his strong performance.
A wave of polling Thursday from CBS, The New York Times and Quinnipiac University, and from NBC, The Wall Street Journal and Marist College, found Romney gaining on Obama in Wisconsin, Florida and Colorado, while Obama maintained a lead in Ohio.
The polls showed a split view of the race in Virginia, with one showing Romney ahead by 1 point and the other giving Obama a 5-point edge.
Both Ryan and Biden have been preparing for tonight’s faceoff in mock debates. Biden has trained with Budget Committee ranking Democrat Chris Van Hollen as a stand-in for Ryan, while Ryan’s Biden substitute is former Bush administration Solicitor General Ted Olson.
The two candidates at the top of the tickets — Romney and Obama — have both expressed confidence in their running-mates’ debating skills. And in an interview with ABC’s Diane Sawyer, the president had a piece of advice for his garrulous second-in-command.
In VP debate, GOP looks to boost momentum, Dems want to steady the ship
Carpenter Damon Denney hangs a sign outside the Norton Center in Danville, Ky., in preparation for Thursday night's vice presidential debate. | Charlie Neibergall/AP
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By Lesley Clark | McClatchy Newspapers
DANVILLE, Ky. — Vice President Joe Biden will take the stage Thursday to debate Rep. Paul Ryan in a matchup that Democrats hope will restore some of the momentum they’ve lost since President Barack Obama’s widely panned performance in last week’s debate.
Republicans, meanwhile, want to bolster their own standing, which polls indicate has improved since nominee Mitt Romney’s strong showing against the president.
Thursday’s debate will be the only contest between the two men, but it could be critical for the Obama campaign, which finds its numbers falling in key battleground states since the first debate.
“There’s some thinking in conservative circles that (Mitt) Romney did so well and Obama did so poorly that a really good showing by Ryan could firmly establish a trend of momentum for the Republicans,” said Keith Appell, a Republican consultant who advises conservative groups.
Even Democrats acknowledge that the stakes are higher now for Biden to deliver a solid performance.
“For Democrats, it’s an opportunity to start the comeback narrative,” said Fred Yang, a Democratic pollster. “It’s a chance to restart, to acknowledge that we had a tough debate, but we’ve had some improving jobs numbers and we’ve got momentum heading into the next round.”
The 90-minute faceoff at Centre College in Danville, Ky., which starts at 9 p.m. EDT, will focus on foreign and domestic issues. Martha Raddatz, chief foreign correspondent for ABC News, will moderate.
Though Ryan has little foreign policy experience, Biden does. But Ryan is likely to push Romney’s charge that the administration has mishandled events in the Middle East, particularly the attack on the U.S. consulate in Libya that resulted in the deaths of four Americans, including the U.S. ambassador.
Expect Biden eager to cast himself as a champion of the working class and to portray his opponent as a far-right conservative and a member of the unpopular House of Representatives. He’ll look to tie Ryan to his budget plan, which cuts into popular programs, and charge that he wants to radically change Medicare and cut taxes for the wealthy.
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Expect Biden eager to cast himself as a champion of the working class and to portray his opponent as a far-right conservative and a member of the unpopular House of Representatives. He’ll look to tie Ryan to his budget plan, which cuts into popular programs, and charge that he wants to radically change Medicare and cut taxes for the wealthy.
Ryan will likely portray Biden as partner in a presidency that has failed to fix the economy and improve conditions for millions of jobless Americans.
While the campaigns might view this debate as critical, analysts say that it’s just as likely to be forgotten as soon as Tuesday, when Obama and Romney meet for a second time. They will take questions from undecided voters in a town-hall style encounter in New York. Their final debate will be Oct. 22 in Florida.
The vice presidential debate “rapidly becomes fairly irrelevant” by the time the next presidential matchup occurs, Charlie Cook, an independent political analyst and editor and publisher of The Cook Political Report, said at a post-presidential debate briefing last week held by the National Journal.
“I’m thinking maybe vice presidential debates should carry a disclaimer: ‘This debate is for entertainment purposes only,’” he said.
Analysts point in particular to the 1988 debate between the vice presidential contenders when the patrician Democratic Texas senator, Lloyd Bentsen, memorably took apart his younger Republican counterpart, Dan Quayle, with a withering quip about how the young Indiana senator was “no Jack Kennedy.”
But Democrats still lost handily that year.
Still, a good performance by Biden would be a tonic to the Obama campaign, and a strong showing by Ryan in his first national debate would undoubtedly further energize Republicans and add to Romney’s momentum.
Biden came off the campaign trail nearly a week ago to prepare, with mock debates using Rep. Chris Van Hollen of Maryland playing the Ryan role. Van Hollen serves on the House Budget Committee with Ryan, its chairman. The campaign has even dispatched Obama’s chief campaign strategist, David Axelrod, to Biden’s debate preparation – a move the campaign insisted had been in the works even before the first debate.
Ryan has spent five days on debate preparation. Standing in for Biden was attorney Ted Olson, the U.S. solicitor general under President George W. Bush, who successfully argued the contested 2000 presidential contest before the U.S. Supreme Court.
Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/10/10/171128/in-vp-debate-gop-looks-to-boost.html#storylink=cpyRyan has spent five days on debate preparation. Standing in for Biden was attorney Ted Olson, the U.S. solicitor general under President George W. Bush, who successfully argued the contested 2000 presidential contest before the U.S. Supreme Court.
A new poll suggests that neither has much of an edge with voters and both are less popular than Biden and his 2008 opponent, former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, were when they debated. Just 39 percent of voters viewed Biden favorably in the poll by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, while 44 percent viewed Ryan favorably.
Ryan enjoys a slight edge in the expectations game, which both sides have – predictably – been trying to lower. Republicans have cast Ryan as a rookie debater and Biden as a pro.
Romney told CNN that his running mate “may have done something in high school,” while Biden’s camp notes that Ryan is a 14-year veteran of Congress and chairman of one of its most powerful committees.
Email:lclark@mcclatchydc.com;twitter:@lesleyclark
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The vice president can be a top-notch political gunner, or a gaffe machine. Which one will show up Thursday night? Matt Latimer sorts the many faces of Joltin’ Joe.
For this entire week, the American people will pretend to care about Joe Biden. Such is the fate of anyone chosen to serve as vice president that we send him into oblivion until he (or she) says something worth mocking. Forget their views on national security or the environment: veeps only command attention when they misspell potato or claim to have invented the Internet.
Joe Biden. (AP Photo (2))
Normally Thursday’s vice presidential debate, like the office itself, would be irrelevant in determining the outcome of this year’s election. In this case, that may not be true. The 2012 election is so close and the candidates so uniformly unsatisfactory that any slight shift of wind—a leaked video or a lackluster debate—can blow the polls in a different direction. This week Mitt Romney rides a wave in the polls. Or not, depending on which pollster you choose to believe.
On Thursday night, it will be Joe Biden and Paul Ryan’s turn to shift the winds again with gusts of hot air. At his best, Mr. Ryan is a young(ish) idea guy who is a rarity in politics: someone who actually believes what he says. At his worst, Ryan can come across as a heartless number cruncher—or the most physically fit accountant in Janesville, Wisconsin.
Watch a compilation of Joe Biden's greatest gaffes.
Unless Mr. Ryan lights the podium on fire or walks on stage in a tank top, however, most eyes will be trained firmly on our current vice president. And Mr. Biden has the trickier task—to reinvigorate the Obama campaign’s momentum while making the case against Mitt Romney that his boss seemed to think was beneath him. Can Joe Biden pull off such a task? Well, that all depends on which Joe Biden decides to show up. Here are the possibilities:
Biden #1:
Uncle Cornball: We all know this version of our vice president: the cloying, cheesy, “God love ya, man” Joe Biden who gets so carried away with his voice that he gets himself into all kinds of trouble. We first saw this guy in 2008, when he was so excited America had the chance to elect a black president that he promptly insulted Obama and the entire black race, calling his future boss “the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean.” We saw this guy again a few weeks ago at a campaign rally where he announced to African-Americans in the audience that Republicans will put “y’all back in chains.” This is the goofy guy who says things like, “Folks, I can tell you I’ve known eight presidents. Three of them intimately.” Or “I promise you the president has a big stick. I promise you.” The guy who said “jobs” was a three-letter word. I kind of want to see this guy. But I bet Obama doesn’t.
Biden #2:
Dan Quayle the Second: A slightly worse version of the above, this Joe Biden not only says foolish things, but gives priceless ammunition to the Romney campaign. The most memorable example occurred a few days ago when he told an audience that the “middle class” has been “buried”during the Obama years. A few years ago, this Joe Biden warned people not to ride on aircraft or subways out of fear of contracting “swine flu.” And this Joe Biden casually noted that Americans couldn’t go to a 7-11 or donut shop “unless you have a slight Indian accent.” Lest one hope that the vice president was kidding around on that last one, Biden quickly added, “I’m not joking.” Team Obama isn’t looking for this guy either.
Biden #3:
Bazooka Joe: This is the Joe Biden that many Obama supporters are hoping for: the quick-witted lawyer able to throw some tough jabs and who presided over Judiciary Committee hearings to disqualify conservative judges. Bazooka Joe knows how to destroy a target. During the 2008 campaign, for example, he fired a devastating shot at former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, whose presidential campaign seemed to be built around his response to a national tragedy. “There’s only three things [Rudy] mentions in a sentence,” Biden said. “A noun, a verb, and 9/11.” He said Sarah Palin “was in sixth grade the last time John [McCain] had a good idea.” And he’s ratcheted up the rhetoric against Mitt Romney ever since the last debate. As a student, Biden was known to be an ace crammer; presumably he’s studied up enough on Romney and Ryan to do some real damage.
Biden #4:
Delaware Joe: By far the most effective of the Joe Bidens, this guy was elected to the U.S. Senate at the age of 29—the sixth-youngest senator in American history—running against a well-established Republican incumbent and given virtually no chance by the punditry. Just before Christmas of that same year, this Joe Biden lost his wife and their 1-year-old daughter in a car accident. It fell to him to heal what remained of his shattered family and to rebuild his life. Which is exactly what he did. This Joe Biden is a formidable weapon for the Obama campaign: the likable Irish Catholic who rode Amtrak every day from Washington to Wilmington so that his kids could stay in their family home in Delaware. This Joe Biden can make a powerful case to average Americans because he talks their language and understand their fears. This Joe Biden might just turn the election back in Obama’s direction. That is, if he shows up. We’ll find out soon.
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 10/11/2012 22:43 -0400
